GLPHubglpresearchhub.com
Read-only archive. GLP Research Hub is a static community record — nothing here is for sale, no account is needed, and no vote you cast is counted. Why?
Archived. This submission is more than a year old. Votes and new comments are closed, and some of the advice in it may have been superseded — check the community wiki for the current version.
927
c/survodutide·posted 2 years ago by u/ismael_nwosu

why does nobody talk about biopsy

Caution Receipts ×8 Well Actually ×3

Slightly embarrassed to be asking this, but: why does nobody talk about biopsy.

Bought small because the evidence base is early. That is the only defensible position I could construct.

The honest evidence position, written out so this board does not drift.

Phase 2 data exists in a specific, biopsy-characterised population, with a slow protocol escalation and tolerability tables worth reading in full. Nothing containing this compound is approved by any regulator anywhere. Research-use-only material is not approved for human use.

Independent purity results across this entire site number in the low single figures. That means nobody here — including the people who post most confidently — has a basis for statements about batch-to-batch consistency. If you test something, post it; the log is the only thing that will change that position.

The endpoint vocabulary, because you cannot read this literature without it.

Resolution of steatohepatitis without worsening of fibrosis and improvement in fibrosis without worsening of steatohepatitis are the two standard composite endpoints, both scored on biopsy by pathologists against a defined system. Liver fat fraction is an imaging surrogate that correlates imperfectly with histology.

A trial can move the surrogate substantially and the histological endpoint modestly. Both results are real; they answer different questions. Anybody quoting a response rate here should say which endpoint it refers to, and most summaries do not.

If somebody has the same thing measured a different way, post it next to mine and we will see whether they agree.

1,269 up / 342 down79% upvoted38 commentsid 1w37z131 May 2024

38 comments

12 in this archive, depth 4

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/nadia_kjaer96 points·2 years ago

Histological endpoints in this field are scored on biopsy: resolution of steatohepatitis without worsening of fibrosis, or improvement in fibrosis without worsening of steatohepatitis. Both are harder to achieve and to interpret than an imaging surrogate.

replysharereportpermalink
u/chidi_demir43 points·2 years ago

It is a dual agonist at the GLP-1 and glucagon receptors. The glucagon arm is associated with increased energy expenditure and with effects on hepatic fat, which is why the development programme is oriented towards liver disease.

replysharereportpermalink
u/cesar_ivaturi-27 points·2 years ago

Which endpoint — histological response, fibrosis improvement, or fat fraction?

replysharereportpermalink
u/ismael_nwosuOP39 points·2 years ago·edited

Went slowly because everything published describes a deliberate escalation. That is the extent of what I will say about it.

replysharereportpermalink
u/incretin_ivypharmacology18 points·2 years ago

the hepatic data is what makes this compound different from the others

replysharereportpermalink
u/certified_referenceQC13 points·2 years ago

Which phase and which arm are you quoting?

replysharereportpermalink
u/santiago_villalobos60 points·2 years ago

Is that a weight number from a different programme?

replysharereportpermalink
u/incretin_ivypharmacology16 points·2 years ago

Agreed that the endpoint definitions matter enormously and almost nobody reads them before quoting a response rate.

replysharereportpermalink
u/old_account_20234 points·2 years ago

MASH endpoints are histological, which is a much harder bar

replysharereportpermalink
u/britt_abubakar15 points·2 years ago

this board is small because the compound is early

replysharereportpermalink
u/dario_boateng7 points·2 years ago

This. Biopsy-confirmed and imaging-suggested are different evidentiary categories and get run together constantly.

replysharereportpermalink
u/diego_szabo8 points·2 years ago

Right, and the trial titration was slow for reasons that are visible in the tolerability tables.

replysharereportpermalink
Permalinked branches
Deep branches get their own page so a single reply chain can be linked and read on its own.
About c/survodutide

Survodutide-specific discussion: glucagon-receptor co-agonism, the hepatic fat and MASH resolution data, and how the side-effect profile compares with GIP-based dual agonism. Small community, high signal.

12kmembers
62submissions
Feb 2024created
submissions / month, last year
Sponsored

Sigma-Aldrich Standards

Certified reference materials for peptide identity and purity work.

sigmaaldrich.com
c/survodutide rules
  1. Glucagon co-agonism has a distinct safety story. Do not generalise from tirzepatide.
  2. MASH claims need the trial and the biopsy endpoint.
  3. Not approved. Descriptive posts only.
  4. Independent community. Nobody here sells anything, and anyone who tries is banned.
  5. Not medical advice. Describe what you did; never prescribe to a stranger.
  6. Claims need evidence. Batch numbers, dated screenshots, independent test reports, or a citation.
  7. No referral links, discount codes or affiliate URLs. Permanent ban, no appeal.
  8. No contact handles, wallet addresses or tracking numbers — they identify people.
  9. Be recognisably decent. Disagree hard, insult nobody.
Moderators
Volunteers. Unpaid, unaffiliated, and reachable through modmail only.
Before you read on

Several compounds discussed on GLP Research Hub are sold for research use only and are not approved for human use anywhere. Nothing here is medical advice and none of it is written by your clinician. If a post reads like an instruction, treat it as a description of what one stranger did.