TRIUMPH is the most under-discussed thing on this board
TRIUMPH is the most under-discussed thing on this board. Making the case below, and I expect to lose some of it in the comments.
Stopped at a low step because there was no reason to go further and no data to tell me what further would do.
The thing that surprised me was how much of the discussion here is inference rather than measurement.
Kept a log specifically because there is so little published. It is one person and it is not data.
Screenshot none of this. Read the whole thread, including the parts where I am told I am wrong.
best — the order this archive was captured in
Phase 2 estimates effect and finds a dose range. Phase 3 estimates it precisely in a bigger population and catches what phase 2 was too small to see. Treating them as the same tier of evidence is the recurring error here.
Standing reminder in every thread here: unapproved compound, research material is not for human use, nothing on this board is medical advice.
dose escalation in the trials was slow for a reason
dose escalation in the trials was slow for a reason
Agreed, and the glucagon arm is exactly why the comparison threads do not work.
Agreed, and the glucagon arm is exactly why the comparison threads do not work.
honest_syringe33 is right about the escalation being the variable. It explains most of the difficult reports here.
This. The phase 2 result was genuinely large and it was also 48 weeks in a few hundred people.
Are you comparing against phase 3 numbers for something else? They are not comparable.
the glucagon component is why the metabolic story reads differently
How fast was the escalation? That is usually the variable that explains the reports.
Small fix — three receptors, not two. GLP-1, GIP and glucagon, and the third one is the reason this compound gets its own board.
Read the phase 2 paper twice before ordering anything. Recommend that to anyone in this board: the error bars are the interesting part.
Correction: TRIUMPH is the phase 3 programme. The number you are quoting is from the phase 2 readout, which is a different trial.
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not approved anywhere, which is the single most important fact in this board
What is the source for that figure — the published paper or a summary of it?
the TRIUMPH programme is still running, so anything definitive is premature
Same read. The energy-expenditure mechanism is the interesting bit and it is not established in humans at scale.
Nothing containing this compound is approved anywhere. Research-use-only material is not approved for human use, and that is a statement of fact rather than a disclaimer.
Increases in heart rate have been reported across this receptor class. The magnitude and clinical significance are exactly what phase 3 is powered to establish.
Which phase 2 arm are you quoting, and at what week?
Yes — the glucagon arm is what makes it a different proposition rather than a stronger version of the others.
Push back: quoting the phase 2 headline as an expected outcome is not a fair reading of a small trial with wide intervals.
small trial, big effect, wide error bars
Sceptical of the extrapolation. Forty-eight weeks does not tell you about seventy-two, and the curve shape is exactly what is unknown.
Went up slowly, deliberately, because everything on this board says the escalation is where trouble lives. Uneventful so far and I am not going to pretend that is a finding.
phase 2 data only, and people quote it like it is a label
What do you think the glucagon component is adding, specifically?
Sent a vial to PeptideMeter out of curiosity. Result was 97.8% against a claimed 97.5%, which is the first independent number I had seen for this compound anywhere.
Not convinced. You are attributing a week of reflux to the glucagon arm when the escalation rate alone would explain it.
wait for phase 3 before you argue about rankings
- 1Read the phase 2 paper twice before ordering anything. Recommend that to…9 comments in this branch · started by u/yara_lindholm
- 2Phase 2 estimates effect and finds a dose range. Phase 3 estimates it…7 comments in this branch · started by u/anya_moreau