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c/retatrutide·posted 2 years ago by u/trialwatch_theo

[Lab] 2th independent test on BCH — 97.8% on a claimed 97.5%, and the trend is the interesting part

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Title says it — 2th independent test on BCH — 97.8% on a claimed 97.5%, and the trend is the interesting part — so here is the boring supporting detail that makes it worth anything.

The relevant figures are 97.8% and 97.5%, and they come from the same log I have kept the whole time.

Watched heart rate on a wearable across twelve weeks because the threads said to. It moved a little and I have no idea whether that means anything.

Read the phase 2 paper twice before ordering anything. Recommend that to anyone in this board: the error bars are the interesting part.

If two or three other people have done the same thing we might actually learn something. Alone it is an anecdote.

9,402 up / 1,934 down83% upvoted35 commentsid g8riuy16 Mar 2024
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35 comments

22 in this archive, depth 4

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/incretin_ivyMOD1.3k points·2 years ago

Standing reminder in every thread here: unapproved compound, research material is not for human use, nothing on this board is medical advice.

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[deleted]898 points·2 years ago

[deleted]

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u/helga_vermeulen510 points·2 years ago

The injection-site soreness profile felt different rather than worse. Hard to describe and impossible to quantify, so take it as an impression.

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u/kofi_balogun845 points·2 years ago

Small fix — three receptors, not two. GLP-1, GIP and glucagon, and the third one is the reason this compound gets its own board.

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u/trialwatch_theoOPtrial nerd376 points·2 years ago

the TRIUMPH programme is still running, so anything definitive is premature

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u/trialwatch_theoOPtrial nerd666 points·2 years ago

triple agonist — GLP-1, GIP and glucagon, and the glucagon arm is the new part

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u/careful_gradient_notes461 points·2 years ago

Correction: TRIUMPH is the phase 3 programme. The number you are quoting is from the phase 2 readout, which is a different trial.

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u/cagrilintide_enthusiast387 points·2 years ago

Where the evidence actually stands, since every thread here assumes a different answer.

Phase 2 reported a large mean body weight change at 48 weeks across a few hundred participants with a slow, protocol-driven escalation. The effect size was striking. The confidence intervals were wide, the population was small, and the duration was under a year.

Phase 3 is running. Until it reports, everything else — including the ranking arguments this board loves — is extrapolation from a small study. That is not a criticism of the compound; it is a description of the evidence.

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u/trialwatch_theoOPtrial nerd302 points·2 years ago

That is body weight change, not fat mass. The trials report the first and people quote it as the second.

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u/ismael_eriksen92 points·2 years ago

research-use-only material is not approved for human use, full stop

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u/discount_math_dm249 points·2 years ago

a lot of the confident posting here is extrapolation

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u/titration_marshalmod · c/semaglutide937 points·2 years ago

Which phase 2 arm are you quoting, and at what week?

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u/trialwatch_theotrial nerd0 points·2 years ago

Sent a vial to Janoshik out of curiosity. Result was 97.8% against a claimed 97.0%, which is the first independent number I had seen for this compound anywhere.

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u/employer_carveout439 points·2 years ago

Glucagon receptor agonism is associated with increased energy expenditure and with hepatic effects. That is a mechanistic story with strong preclinical support and limited phase 2 human data.

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u/niels_lindqvist251 points·2 years ago·edited

Glucagon receptor agonism is associated with increased energy expenditure and with hepatic effects.

employer_carveout is right about the escalation being the variable. It explains most of the difficult reports here.

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u/careful_gradient32238 points·2 years ago

The phase 2 readout ran to 48 weeks in a few hundred participants with a slow escalation. Both the size and the duration matter when people quote the headline number.

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u/halima_mbeki82 points·2 years ago

Cosigning the escalation point. Almost every difficult report on this board is from somebody who went up quickly.

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u/nadia_trevino66 points·2 years ago

nothing here is available as a prescription product, so read every thread with that in mind

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u/hassan_nilsen354 points·2 years ago·edited

What do you think the glucagon component is adding, specifically?

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u/farid_molnar-31 points·2 years ago

It is a triple agonist at the GLP-1, GIP and glucagon receptors. The glucagon arm is the genuinely novel component and it is the one with the least human outcome data behind it.

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u/liver_enzyme_liz328 points·2 years ago

the escalation is where most of the reported trouble sits

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u/naomi_erdogan201 points·2 years ago·edited

Increases in heart rate have been reported across this receptor class. The magnitude and clinical significance are exactly what phase 3 is powered to establish.

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About c/retatrutide

Retatrutide: GIP/GLP-1/glucagon triple agonism, the TRIUMPH programme, and the fact that most people discussing it are handling research-grade material with no human-use approval anywhere. Dose-response, heart-rate signal, and the unusually steep phase-2 weight curves get argued about here weekly.

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