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c/retatrutide·submitted 11 months ago by u/hassan_nilsen

[Discussion] we are measuring TRIUMPH at the wrong time and calling it noise

Discussionbranch of 15 comments

we are measuring TRIUMPH at the wrong time and calling it noise. Making the case below, and I expect to lose some of it in the comments. The constipation profile felt different rather than worse. Hard to describe and impossible to quantify, so take it as an impression. Independent purity testing on this compound is…

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15 comments, started 11 months ago
u/nordic_pricing58 points·11 months ago

Glucagon receptor agonism is associated with increased energy expenditure and with hepatic effects. That is a mechanistic story with strong preclinical support and limited phase 2 human data.

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u/anya_moreau0 points·11 months ago

Increases in heart rate have been reported across this receptor class. The magnitude and clinical significance are exactly what phase 3 is powered to establish.

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u/quiet_moderatormod1 point·11 months ago

Cosigning the escalation point. Almost every difficult report on this board is from somebody who went up quickly.

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u/marta_vanhecke1 point·11 months ago·edited

Correction: TRIUMPH is the phase 3 programme. The number you are quoting is from the phase 2 readout, which is a different trial.

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u/incretin_ivypharmacology1 point·11 months ago

Cosigning the escalation point.

Adding the standing caveat: none of this is approved anywhere and research material is not for human use.

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u/burned_once_twice19 points·11 months ago

a lot of the confident posting here is extrapolation

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u/solene_ilunga9 points·11 months ago

research-use-only material is not approved for human use, full stop

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u/yara_lindholm47 points·11 months ago

Not convinced. You are attributing a week of nausea to the glucagon arm when the escalation rate alone would explain it.

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u/cold_chromatogram_only21 points·11 months ago

Not convinced.

Agreed, and the glucagon arm is exactly why the comparison threads do not work.

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u/tired_ledger_notes8 points·11 months ago

That is body weight change, not fat mass. The trials report the first and people quote it as the second.

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u/hassan_nilsenOP-35 points·11 months ago·edited

That is body weight change, not fat mass.

tired_ledger_notes is right about the escalation being the variable. It explains most of the difficult reports here.

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u/ferran_krastev2 points·11 months ago

The phase 2 readout ran to 48 weeks in a few hundred participants with a slow escalation. Both the size and the duration matter when people quote the headline number.

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u/niels_lindqvist5 points·11 months ago

Agreed, and the glucagon arm is exactly why the comparison threads do not work.

Disagree with this specific inference. A 48-week readout does not tell you the shape of the curve after it.

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u/cormac_roos4 points·11 months ago

Kept a log specifically because there is so little published. It is one person and it is not data.

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u/yannick_salinas29 points·11 months ago

Not convinced.

This is the sentence the rest of the board should read first. Phase 2 is not a label.

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Retatrutide: GIP/GLP-1/glucagon triple agonism, the TRIUMPH programme, and the fact that most people discussing it are handling research-grade material with no human-use approval anywhere. Dose-response, heart-rate signal, and the unusually steep phase-2 weight curves get argued about here weekly.

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