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c/maintenancephase·posted 2 years ago by u/copay_card_cc

how much of what we believe about dose stretching actually comes from regain threads

Regain Slow Clap ×8 Sourced ×1

Asking properly rather than in a comment on somebody else’s thread: how much of what we believe about dose stretching actually comes from regain threads.

On stopping, since it is the question underneath most posts here.

Withdrawal studies in this class show substantial regain after discontinuation, consistently, across compounds. Appetite returns first, typically well before the scale moves. That is a statement about the pharmacology of a chronic condition, not about anybody’s character, and the framing matters because people quit in shame over an entirely predictable result.

If you are going to stop — for cost, for supply, for any reason — the useful preparation is deciding in advance what you will watch for and what your plan is when appetite comes back. Doing that in advance is much easier than doing it in a panic, and it is a conversation to have with someone who knows your history.

Interval stretching changes the exposure profile: with a week-long half-life, moving to ten or twelve days lowers trough concentration more than it lowers average exposure. That is why appetite return is often the first thing noticed.

Withdrawal studies in this class consistently show substantial regain after discontinuation. That is a pharmacological finding about a chronic condition, not a statement about anyone’s discipline.

If somebody has the same thing measured a different way, post it next to mine and we will see whether they agree.

1,532 up / 505 down75% upvoted55 commentsid pas1l16 Feb 2024

55 comments

17 in this archive, depth 5

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/rasmus_petrescu154 points·2 years ago

Appetite returning before the scale moves follows from the mechanism: the appetite effect is the proximal one and weight is the lagging integrated outcome.

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u/zaid_eriksen74 points·2 years ago·edited

Body weight varies by a couple of kilos over days in stable people through fluid, glycogen and gut content. A range is not a trend.

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u/dario_petrescu60 points·2 years ago

Push back: that is not a plateau, that is maintenance. You have arrived and you are describing it as a failure.

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u/oskar_malinowski-8 points·2 years ago

Chased the last three kilos with a dose increase and got a fortnight of muscle cramps and no change in the number.

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u/kenji_vasquez1 point·2 years ago

maintenance is where the logistics finally get boring, which is the point

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u/copay_card_ccOP1 point·2 years ago

Correction: that trial measured regain after withdrawal, not failure of the drug during treatment. Very different claim.

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u/copay_card_ccOP0 points·2 years ago

What is the plan if the drift continues for another month?

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u/incretin_ivypharmacology1 point·2 years ago

Yes — interval stretching and dose reduction are different levers and people use the words interchangeably.

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u/rafael_krastev121 points·2 years ago

Agreed that a few kilos of drift is ordinary. Weight is not a fixed number even for people who have never taken anything.

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u/transit_variance81 points·2 years ago

None of this is a taper plan. What dose holds for you is a question for somebody with your history in front of them.

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u/fabio_kuipers46 points·2 years ago

None of this is a taper plan.

Adding one thing — decide what maintenance looks like before you arrive at it.

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u/kasper_cabrera33 points·2 years ago

Is the goal weight still the one you picked at the start?

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u/vitamin_d_void17 points·2 years ago

Yes. The habits have to outlive the dose or the maintenance phase is just a countdown.

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u/sofia_wikstrom58 points·2 years ago

appetite returns before the scale acknowledges anything

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u/noor_vermeulen28 points·2 years ago

appetite returns before the scale acknowledges anything

Disagreeing with this bit: a two-kilo range is not drift and treating it as a problem creates one.

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u/andres_dahlberg46 points·2 years ago

the goal weight you picked at week 1 was a guess

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u/sena_balogun39 points·2 years ago·edited

Maintenance is the phase with the least published guidance and the most individual variation, which is precisely why board consensus here is worth less than usual.

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About c/maintenancephase

The part nobody posts about: what happens at goal weight. Finding a lowest effective dose, dose-interval stretching, regain risk data, muscle retention, the psychology of not having a number to chase, and staying on indefinitely versus tapering.

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