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c/coldchain·posted 2 years ago by u/india_generic_g

[Meta] the stability rule is doing its job and people should stop complaining

Discussion Clean Column ×4 Long Haul ×3 Slow Clap ×2

the stability rule is doing its job and people should stop complaining — posting the reasoning in public because a policy you cannot inspect is just a preference.

On loggers, since I was sceptical and then bought one.

A small transit logger costs a fraction of a vial and records the whole journey rather than the moment of arrival. What I learned from three of them: my lane is far more stable than I assumed, the one excursion I did capture was on a weekend, and the arrival-temperature guessing I had been doing was worthless.

If you are going to argue about cold chain, argue from a chart. It is a one-off purchase and it ends the speculation permanently.

Once in solution, the relevant risks are hydrolysis, aggregation and, for some sequences, oxidation. Refrigeration slows all three; freezing a solution introduces a separate risk at the ice interface.

Lyophilisation removes the water that drives most degradation pathways. That is why the dry cake is comparatively robust and the reconstituted solution is not.

Ask me anything specific. Anything general I will probably get wrong.

4,394 up / 640 down87% upvoted52 commentsid vy8rgt27 Nov 2023

52 comments

30 in this archive, depth 4

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/ice_pack_auditMOD372 points·2 years ago

Merged into the seasonal thread for that lane so the reports sit together.

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u/cesar_teixeira159 points·2 years ago

Agreed on seasonality. The same lane in February and August is not the same lane.

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u/india_generic_gOP196 points·2 years ago

the excursion that matters is the one after reconstitution

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[deleted]88 points·2 years ago

[deleted]

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u/india_generic_gOP286 points·2 years ago

Small fix — refrigerated, not frozen, once it is in solution.

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u/ines_lindqvist64 points·2 years ago·edited

That is the ambient temperature at the destination, not the temperature inside the box. The logger measures the second one.

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u/anjali_tamm121 points·2 years ago

I would not freeze it in solution. That is a different failure mode and a worse one.

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u/cato_batista-22 points·2 years ago

Regional stock changes the question rather than answering it: shorter lanes mean less exposure and fewer variables, which is why the warehouse question is worth asking before ordering in summer.

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u/honest_syringe331 point·2 years ago

Correction: that stability figure covers the lyophilised powder, not the reconstituted solution. Different claim entirely.

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u/curious_panel_only142 points·2 years ago

Wrote the reconstitution date on the vial for the first time last year. Have never once since wondered how old a solution is.

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u/osman_eriksen88 points·2 years ago

How many days in transit, and which month?

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u/intent_to_treat51 points·2 years ago

Gel pack fully liquid on arrival, powder tested 99.6% against a claimed 99.0% afterwards. The pack had done its job for as long as it was designed to.

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u/zeynep_ndiaye41 points·2 years ago

Push back: you cannot infer degradation from a temperature excursion alone. That is what testing is for.

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u/sterile_field_steph0 points·2 years ago

Gel pack fully liquid on arrival, powder tested 99.6% against a claimed 99.0% afterwards.

Agreed, and a logger costs less than the vial you are worrying about.

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u/split_dose_sceptic84 points·2 years ago

A stability statement is only meaningful with its conditions attached: temperature, duration, light exposure, and whether it covers powder or solution. Ask which.

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u/india_generic_gOP64 points·2 years ago

fridge, not freezer, once it is in solution

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u/nightowl_injector56 points·2 years ago·edited

Which lane, and had it been quoted at that transit time?

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u/anjali_tamm46 points·2 years ago

regional stock removes most of this problem entirely

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u/ireland_drugs_pay56 points·2 years ago

Gel packs are designed for a duty cycle. A liquid pack at the end of a longer-than-expected transit is a pack behaving as specified, not evidence of an excursion in the vial.

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u/ms_fragmenter40 points·2 years ago

Moved everything off the fridge door after reading a thread here and my temperature log immediately got boring.

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u/bastian_ekstrom16 points·2 years ago

Yes — a logger in the box turns a fortnight of speculation into a chart.

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u/anjali_tamm10 points·2 years ago

the door shelf is the worst place in the fridge

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u/iman_castellanos51 points·2 years ago

You cannot infer potency from a temperature record. The record tells you what happened to the box; only a test tells you what happened to the material.

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u/osman_eriksen15 points·2 years ago

Agreed. The dry powder is the robust state; it is the solution that needs the care.

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u/ferran_laurent41 points·2 years ago

if you want to know, log it, otherwise you are guessing

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u/ewan_tulloch12 points·2 years ago

write the reconstitution date on the vial

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u/rohan_steiner11 points·2 years ago

transit temperature is a distribution, not a number

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u/dario_bakken39 points·2 years ago

Same. Door shelf is the worst place in the fridge and it is where everybody puts them.

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u/sten_palacios9 points·2 years ago

ask what storage condition the stability statement was written against

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u/ms_fragmenter4 points·2 years ago

ask what storage condition the stability statement was written against

sten_palacios is right that the pack failing is not the material failing. Two separate claims.

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About c/coldchain

Temperature and stability in the real world: what an excursion actually costs you, why lyophilised powder is far more forgiving than reconstituted solution, how to read a logger CSV, and how to photograph a failed shipment so the conversation with the vendor is short.

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  1. Excursion claims need a logger trace or a photo taken at unboxing. "It felt warm" is not data.
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