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c/coldchain·posted 1 year ago by u/phase_two_pete

[Discussion] can we stop arguing about excursion until somebody posts a number

Discussion Sourced ×9 Slow Clap ×2 Receipts ×1

can we stop arguing about excursion until somebody posts a number. If this has been answered properly somewhere, link me and I will delete.

Regional stock changes the question rather than answering it: shorter lanes mean less exposure and fewer variables, which is why the warehouse question is worth asking before ordering in summer.

A stability statement is only meaningful with its conditions attached: temperature, duration, light exposure, and whether it covers powder or solution. Ask which.

Gel packs are designed for a duty cycle. A liquid pack at the end of a longer-than-expected transit is a pack behaving as specified, not evidence of an excursion in the vial.

Sceptical readings welcome. The confident ones are the ones I distrust.

4,595 up / 237 down95% upvoted51 commentsid qd0zw825 Jan 2025

51 comments

30 in this archive, depth 4

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/sten_palacios523 points·1 year ago·edited

You cannot infer potency from a temperature record. The record tells you what happened to the box; only a test tells you what happened to the material.

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u/tidy_vialdrawer_watch28390 points·1 year ago·edited

Careful. "The cold chain failed" is a strong claim and the evidence you have is a warm box.

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u/fatima_yildiz462 points·1 year ago

I would not freeze it in solution. That is a different failure mode and a worse one.

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u/lina_almeida87 points·1 year ago

A transit temperature logger records a distribution, and time above a threshold matters as much as peak temperature. That is the argument for logging rather than guessing.

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[deleted]156 points·1 year ago

[deleted]

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u/jarno_adeyemi0 points·1 year ago

Right, and asking what the stability statement was written against is one line of email that reframes everything.

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u/salma_vasquez0 points·1 year ago

ask which lines are held in regional stock before you order in July

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u/ines_lindqvist242 points·1 year ago

Asked SSA which lines they hold regionally and got a straight list back. That answered my summer ordering question completely.

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u/ilias_steiner180 points·1 year ago

transit temperature is a distribution, not a number

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u/preservative_free_p125 points·1 year ago

Gel pack fully liquid on arrival, powder tested 97.4% against a claimed 97.0% afterwards. The pack had done its job for as long as it was designed to.

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u/kofi_ferreira117 points·1 year ago

Split an order across two months deliberately to compare summer and winter transit on the same lane. Four days difference, same carrier.

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u/sterile_field_steph37 points·1 year ago

Agreed. The dry powder is the robust state; it is the solution that needs the care.

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u/salma_vasquez100 points·1 year ago

Put a logger in three consecutive orders. Two never went above the range at all and the third spent four hours warm on a Friday. Cost me almost nothing to stop wondering.

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u/solene_abubakar78 points·1 year ago

Correction: that stability figure covers the lyophilised powder, not the reconstituted solution. Different claim entirely.

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u/mod_cold_roomMOD65 points·1 year ago

Retitled: the original asserted degradation the post does not evidence.

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u/gustav_vermeulen52 points·1 year ago

Small fix — refrigerated, not frozen, once it is in solution.

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u/phase_two_peteOP37 points·1 year ago

Correcting myself above: the transit was 8 days, not the figure I posted. Same conclusion, wrong number.

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u/chidi_yilmaz32 points·1 year ago

Not convinced. A warm pack on day six is expected behaviour from a pack designed for four.

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u/phase_two_peteOP12 points·1 year ago

Was there a logger in the box?

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u/kian_solberg10 points·1 year ago

Kept a vial at room temperature for eleven days by accident. Tested it out of guilt. It was fine.

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u/priya_weiss20 points·1 year ago

Do you know what storage condition the stability statement covers?

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u/kofi_ferreira29 points·1 year ago

a summer lane and a winter lane are different lanes

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u/nils_ferreira45 points·1 year ago·edited

That is a lane problem rather than a packaging problem, and the fixes are different.

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u/tidy_vialdrawer_watch2812 points·1 year ago·edited

That is a lane problem rather than a packaging problem, and the fixes are different.

Disagreeing with this line only: freezing a reconstituted vial is not a safe default.

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u/britt_okwuosa10 points·1 year ago

Push back: you cannot infer degradation from a temperature excursion alone. That is what testing is for.

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u/adaeze_weiss28 points·1 year ago

fridge, not freezer, once it is in solution

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Temperature and stability in the real world: what an excursion actually costs you, why lyophilised powder is far more forgiving than reconstituted solution, how to read a logger CSV, and how to photograph a failed shipment so the conversation with the vendor is short.

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