[Discussion] ApoB is doing more work than we give it credit for
ApoB is doing more work than we give it credit for. It is the sort of thing everyone half-believes and nobody writes down.
Tracked fasting insulin against the weight trend for a year. The correlation was much weaker than I expected and that was worth knowing.
How to make a panel worth comparing, which is most of the value people leave on the table.
Standardise the conditions: same lab, same fasting state, same rough time of day, same point in the week, similar hydration. Take a baseline before you change anything. Repeat any surprising value before acting on it. Change one thing at a time if you want to attribute anything to it.
Do that and a year of panels is a trend. Skip it and a year of panels is a collection of unrelated mornings, which is what most of the alarmed posts here are actually describing.
Why so many single values look alarming and turn out to be nothing.
A reference interval is built to contain about 95% of a healthy reference population, so one test in twenty falls outside one by construction. Add biological variation, assay imprecision, fasting state and time of day, and a genuinely stable person will produce occasional out-of-range results.
That is why repeat testing before acting is standard. Regression to the mean handles most of it. None of which means an out-of-range value should be ignored — it means it should be repeated and taken to somebody who can put it in context, which is emphatically not a ranked feed.
Would rather be corrected in public than confident in private.
best — the order this archive was captured in
The confounding problem, stated plainly, because this board keeps stepping on it.
Substantial weight loss moves lipids, liver enzymes, insulin sensitivity markers and several others in its own right. If you are losing weight while taking something, any change in those markers has at least two candidate explanations and you cannot separate them from your own panel.
What you can do is standardise, take a baseline, keep the series long, and be honest in your posts about what is and is not attributable. The threads that say "this compound did X to my TSH" almost never have the design to support the claim, mine included.
fasting state and time of day change more than people expect
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Is that the same assay, or did the lab change platforms?
baseline before you start is worth more than any later panel
Yes — same lab, same fasting state, same rough time of day, or the comparison is doing nothing.
Repeat testing before acting is standard practice for a reason: regression to the mean does a lot of work on single outlying values.
Careful — that is a question for whoever ordered the panel, and nobody in this thread can answer it responsibly.
Careful — that is a question for whoever ordered the panel, and nobody in this thread can answer it responsibly.
Disagreeing with this bit: that change is confounded by the weight loss itself and cannot be attributed.
Careful — that is a question for whoever ordered the panel, and nobody in this thread can answer it responsibly.
Agreed — and standardising the draw conditions is the cheapest improvement available.
Have you taken this to whoever ordered it?
weight loss itself moves several of these independently
weight loss itself moves several of these independently
This is the sentence to read before anybody panics about a single value.
Different laboratories use different assay platforms with different calibration. Comparing across labs adds a systematic offset that is invisible on the report.
Reference intervals are typically the central 95% of a reference population. By construction one person in twenty falls outside one on any given test without anything being wrong.
Added ApoB to the panel after a thread here. It told me something the standard lipid panel had been hiding.
Added ApoB to the panel after a thread here.
amara_dziedzic is right that a reference interval is not a target. It is a description of a population.
Agreed on assay changes. A lab switching platforms between your draws is invisible unless you ask.
Substantial weight loss independently moves lipids, liver enzymes and several other markers. Attributing a change to a compound while losing weight is confounded by design.
That is a non-fasting value and the interval you are comparing it against is a fasting one.
- 1Different laboratories use different assay platforms with different…8 comments in this branch · started by u/kofi_balogun
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